Audio in Portuguese. Read the English transcript below.
The city of Cambridge – Location
“ Ontario is not just Toronto” # 9: Why did Armando live in London?
Why did Armando live in Cambridge? Hi, I’m Christian Pedersen. Welcome to another episode of Ontario beyond Toronto, a podcast of Brazilian Wave Canada. In this episode, we will talk to Armando Padovan, a reverend graduate in economics and business administration. For the past 20 years, he and his wife have lived in the suburb of Etobicoke, which is located here in Toronto. Then they went to Mississauga, then Cambridge, and now they plan to move to Milton. Mississauga is some 27 km west from the center of Toronto. Cambridge, on the other hand, is about 80 km, also, west of downtown Toronto, and Milton is located about 48 km west of downtown Toronto.
Christian: Thank you for participating in our podcast .
Armando: A joy, my dear. It is a joy.
Christian: You prayed in Edmonton, Alberta, for a year, in 1996. How was the experience there?
Armando: A missionary organization invited me to represent them in the western part of Canada . Because they were very strong here in the east. So they invited me. They wanted a person like me. I had the profile as they wanted. I came with the whole family to stay for a year. That was the contract. So, then I got to know Canada in its entirety. I traveled 74,000 km. I spoke at 11 missionary conferences. I spoke in 27 different churches. For an audience (gosh, at the time I did the accounting for that) … but, it was a number like that of seven thousand and so many people (direct audience). When you are at a conference, you speak to a thousand people, when you are in a church, you can be speaking to five people, understand? Making contacts, representing the organization (which has a very beautiful philosophy). They do not send missionaries, they support national missionaries. They are local. I was one of those places in Curitiba, when they helped me. They gave me support, including financial support, for me to develop my work with couples. I held meetings for couples and then the ministry was transformed. It got bigger than just for couples. It was for men, women, children, teenagers, young people in general.
Christian: And how was it there in Edmonton, Alberta? Is it very different from Toronto, Ontario ?
Armando: It is totally different. Even in cultural terms, the presence of Canadians from Canada is even more noticeable. But it has become multicultural over the years and, today, too, it is multicultural. There, in Edmonton , it is very cold, but it is very jewel. It is a society, a very beautiful community, very pleasant to live. I made many friends and it is much more provincial, if I may say so. It is like living in the countryside, for the Brazilian to understand a little of our conversation. And at the same time, it is a city that offers everything you can imagine. Even lower costs, because the provincial tax does not exist there, so you pay 8%. Here is 13%. And there is this idiosyncrasy of the west. They are very open to outsiders, because they are not many. So, everyone who gets there is welcome. It was excellent! When I arrived in Edmonton, I had, practically, only one to two contacts.
Christian: After a year you returned to Brazil, and in 2000 you returned to Canada. Was it for the same reason the first time?
Armando: No. It was a little different. My work, in Brazil, for a number of reasons, I saw that it was over. And it was really interesting. When I left the ministry that I participated in in Brazil, in Curitiba, the day after I left, I received a phone call. It wasn’t even a phone call, it was an email asking me if I was willing to come for an interview in Canada, for a ministry that was looking for someone like me. I even called my wife, she was in the kitchen, I said: Odila, come here! She looked at the email and laughed and said: “Ah! This is not going to go anywhere! ” And I said: Odila, this is serious. They are serious people who are inviting. And she said, “Well, then, let’s see.” I accepted the invitation to come here. That was in August 1998. I was already there in Brazil in 1998, and I agreed to come and do the interview. In the interview, the staff knew me and made a series of considerations, questions and then they invited me. Only I couldn’t come, right away. It took me two years to come to Canada. Because I had a lot of things … I had a job with professional football athletes. I was the national advisor to the “Athletes of Christ”. And then I started a work “Athletes in the Dissemination of the Gospel” that was called ANDE. So, it took two years for me to accept the invitation, definitely, and we, my wife and I, definitely, to Canada .
Christian: And then you came with everyone, wife, children …
Armando: No, no. Just me and the wife. That was a very difficult thing for us. I am already 52 years old and with all the structure there in Brazil in every way. My children are not yet married and are finishing their colleges. We leave the boys behind and we have kids revolted because of that (I’m kidding, lol ). No, thank God, they blessed us: “Father, we are no longer a child”. We, as a family, got together, prayed, talked, explained the reasons, answered questions that we still did not know the answers to. We went to get the answers to these questions and we did everything, together, with the family. In fact, this is a piece of advice that I would like to give. Nobody asked me, but I do. Do you want to come to Canada, or anywhere in the world? You are not alone, you have your family, you have to see … the first thing, is to see with your family. So, husband and wife, for example. I said: Odila, how are you in relation to this? She said: “look, it’s something for us to think about, because we’re going to leave the boys behind. The boys are finishing college, they are not yet married. And they want to marry Brazilian women. They have their plans ”. I said: okay. But and you? And then she said: “wherever you go, I go. I am your wife. I am neither a pastor nor an economist. I am your wife. I am here to bless you, to support you and that is my ministry ”. Such a woman deserves a golden statue and my eternal love! The responsibility fell on me and I decided to go into the ministry full time, as a pastor, as a missionary. As Herzog once said: “Whoever gets into the ostrich, has to hold the egg”. I took the egg and accepted the invitation. So, this is the first piece of advice I give, if I can be heard in that regard; your wife has to be on your side in every way. Because after we are here, when the serious problem comes and you say like this: this is not my place anymore, I want to kick the bucket. If you have a wife, a partner or a partner that gives you the support, she (or he) says: “wait a minute! What was our purpose? What was our goal, that we set out together? Because we can take it! ”.
Christian: It looks like it’s simple, but it’s not. Many say, “I can stay away from the family, no problem.” But, in practice, when a month, two years, three years pass without being able to return to Brazil, if you do not have support from the family, it is more difficult.
Armando: In my case, for example. Already mature, I am 52 years old, I am no longer a child. I confess that there were days when I lay down, I cried: oh how I miss my oldest son, my youngest son! Oh how I miss them both! And I really cried. I didn’t cry near my wife, because otherwise it would turn into chaos. But she, too, cried. So, if you’re not convinced, my dear, you can’t take it. You have to have a lot of conviction. Another thing: Canada is heaven, it is paradise, it is the answer to all things. It is not! It is not! It is a place like any other. I would say this … Canada is a fair country. Someone defined it that way for me. I don’t even remember who it was, but when I heard it, I agreed: “it’s a fair country”. You walk the line, you get rewarded for walking the line. Here there is no such thing as wanting to take advantage of everything, no. Here is a little way, oddly enough. But, there is the Brazilian way and the Canadian way, which is the following: “there is no right way to do the wrong thing. If you did it wrong, you pay for it ”. Recently, I got a ticket because I went through a red light, without realizing it. I had no intention, but I did! The guard came after me. I said: yes, I didn’t notice. I was distracted. And when I said I was distracted, I thought: I better keep silent, because every word I say here goes against me. To make a long story short, the fine was from Can $ 345.00 to Can $ 325.00 and such. Then, the procurator, from the queen, said: “what can I do for you?” And I said: lower that value. Then he said: “I’m going to lower it to Can $ 200.00, okay?” I said: it’s great. How much better do you lower it … and take the points out of the wallet, please? He said: “it’s done, no problem. It is your first infraction and such ”. So, it’s a fair thing, do you understand? I wasn’t even surprised. Then the judge came in the middle (because it was a virtual meeting), asked me a few questions and I answered. And then she said: “look, I am satisfied with the agreement that was made, with the price and everything is fine. And are you satisfied? ” I said: I am and I thank and acknowledge my lack. Case closed, my brother. Don’t do the wrong thing because there is no right way to do the wrong thing. It’s walking on the line!
Christian: Nor is there a perfect place. Of course, there are places with more problems or less problems. But, you cannot come here thinking that it is paradise, that everything will be perfect. No. There is a lot that is wrong.
Armando: I have a lot of friends on Facebook . I have more than four thousand friends, it’s an incredible thing. And with my work here, I inaugurated that “Viva Brasil Integration” ministry, helping Brazilians to integrate here. People still ask me: “is it good?”. Inside of what you told me now: the best place in the world to be is at the center of God’s will. If you are in Africa, if you are in Angola or if you are at the center of a revolution, if God put you there, He will deliver you or He can sacrifice you. But, you are at the center of His will. There is no mistake. Now, not everyone thinks so. There are those people: “I am more me. I go there and Canada is the best place in the world. If not, I will make it the most wonderful place in the world ”. Good luck!
Christian: Good luck, because it will be even more difficult!
Armando: It will be even more difficult. It is arrogance. Pride precedes the fall. It is a principle. When you humble yourself, you are exalted. When you exalt yourself, you are humbled.
Christian: It is true. And you had an interesting situation here. Because you lived in Toronto . Then he went to Mississauga, which is close (but there are differences), and went to Cambridge five years ago. What are the differences between them?
Armando: Well, first, it is the difference in price and property rental. This is a stark difference between one thing and the other. At the time I came, I stayed in Etobicoke (Toronto). I rented a basement there, me and my wife. It was tiny, but very well-groomed and we started to live there. But after three to four months, we moved to Mississauga. So, in Etobicoke it is practically Mississauga, because they are very close areas. But there was already a difference in prices. I paid Can $ 950.00 per month (this was in the year 2000) and I went to pay Can $ 1,100.00 for a three bedroom apartment. Today, it is already different. Even the rents today are absurd. Then we bought a town house in Mississauga, which was a great deal that we did. The situation of buying a property was different at that time. With 5% down payment, I bought a property with a certain amount of tranquility and I got it. After three years, I sold the property with Can $ 40,000.00 in profit. Then we moved to Mississauga , but for a two bedroom apartment (very good!) The price was affordable. Today, you don’t easily buy a property, an apartment there in Mississauga, as ours was. Mississauga has its differences for Toronto . For example, in Mississauga, the streets are wider and the atmosphere is less intense than Toronto. Already Toronto gives much oportunid adhesion jobs to Mississauga, which was becoming a major center, too, with a great admini stradora that was the Hazel McCallion, the fifth mayor of Mississauga (q ue in power from 1978 to 2014) . Hurricane Hazel, as it is known, has just turned 100 years old. Really incredible. After Hazel retired, Bonnie Crombie was elected mayor in 2014 and is still in power today. She’s great, too. She goes along the same lines and is a hard worker. This is another thing that Brazilians need to understand in Canada: political, it is worth. She ended her tenure at the age of 94. Is it a policy? Course is! But it is worth, they are serious people and her word weighs. Politicians here, in general, are very serious. Both liberals and conservatives. Of course, I have my political preference. That’s right, we are in a democracy. But, the politician’s word here is important. Another thing, they hear you, they don’t just talk. It is a fair country.
Christian : Between Mississauga and Toront o , what do you think? In the end, both have good and bad sides, too. There’s nothing 100% perfect …
Armando: The question of real estate prices is quite different between Toronto and Mississauga. The question of jobs will depend on what the person is aiming for. There is a question, Christian, which is very common for immigrants, which is: hey! I’m a lawyer and will I have to deliver pizza here ?! Or: I am a doctor of economics, but am I going to have to clean the houses there ?! Anyway, there is the job of survival, which we talk about. If the person arrives here with humility, like a great friend of mine… he came here and he went to be the boy who cleaned the tables in the restaurant. Today, he is a very successful businessman. Very well! His wife was an janitor for an organization and one day she was cleaning the drawing room and took a look at the drawing board, the drawing and such. She saw the project and then the head of the section said: “what are you looking at?”. Then she said: “I know how to do this”. Then the guy said: “how so”? Then she said: “I am an architect”. The guy said: “then continue this project because the guy took a leave of absence and I need someone, now”. And she said: “it’s for now”. He sat on the clipboard and started to work. Conclusion: last year, she retired with a lot of retirement (and started as a cleaning lady!). So, I quote these two friends, who are a couple. I am very proud to be friends with them and I value them very much and they taught me that. We were not friends, we became friends. They have all my admiration for that. So it’s another piece of advice for the Brazilians who arrived: humility! You don’t own the world, take it easy!
Christian: It is not like here in Brazil, where certain jobs are viewed in a pejorative way. Here, there is no such thing. If a person is a cleaner, if she is a pizza delivery man, there is no such prejudice about being inferior. It’s so normal here, that nobody cares about it. We have plumber friends, we have friends who run schools and have nothing.
Armando: I was invited to be a spiritual leader in a teen and youth camp and I was. It was there in Manitoba. I went. It was cold! It was raining! I got there and the camp coordinator said: “Pastor Armando is here and will be our spiritual leader for the next two weeks. He will be the Counselor for the children, for the teenagers, for the young people and for us too, the staff and such ”. The meeting ended, he came to me and said: “Pastor, I’m going to give you a job to do”. I said: whatever is necessary. And he said: “during the day, we need you to clean the bathrooms”. And I went to clean the bathrooms! It took two weeks to clean up dirt (and the dirty dirt because the kids arrived and everything was muddy, you know how a child is… they were very polite, but they were dirty and I had to clean them. How good that was for my character and for I’m talking to you with pride, in a good way. Wow, I won this phase! So, the fact that you’re cleaning the bathroom doesn’t mean you’re no good or you’re worthless. because if I go to work for money, my friend, I will earn a few bucks and nothing more. But, we need the money to live, sometimes needing a lot to get by, but that’s it. In my life , I always said that to my boys and, thank God, that they got the message: money doesn’t have to be your goal, money is a consequence. And, thank God, Christian, I have two boys (they’re not perfect, but that’s not what I’m talking about. They’re boys who have families, they’re jewels. old man has a technology company and is doing very well. The company is growing, even in the pandemic. The youngest is the general manager of the company. I am financial control and I am under both. Money is not our goal, it is the result of our work. Even in churches, when I worked for churches in full time and everything (because I was pastor of a Pastoral team), I never worked for money. I needed the money to live and they knew it. So, they paid me. But me: no, no. Money is not my goal. Another thing, Brazilians come here come with this awareness: “I will succeed”. Great, your ambition is positive, but there must be humility in everything you do.
Christian: There is a way, it won’t be free …
Armando: There is a path. My son, for example, graduated in electrical engineering, back in Brazil. Electric engineer!. But, when he applied, the person who interviewed him said: “If you are going to be an engineer, you will have to take your engineer credentials and it will take one to two years. You’ll have to have a mentor Canadians themselves etc . “He scratched his head and said:” what if I go as a coach? ” Then, she said: “it’s approved, now”. And he: “then put me as a coach”. He came as a technician and after three years, he had a company at hand, you know? He started working at a technology company (the company owner was my friend). One day, he arrived: “your son will own the company because I am going to pass it on to him”. There it is! Telling about my son … when he arrived here, wife Carina was pregnant with Julia, our first granddaughter. They arrived here in January, and he started working that week even though they arrived. He arrived on the 25th of January and on the 26th they were here. On the first of February he was employed at this technology company. Except that the money was very little. I don’t remember if it was Can $ 10 an hour … and he also couldn’t exceed a certain number of hours a week. So he went to work as a janitor at a BMW agency. A Portuguese lady had these contracts and I went to help my son. It was the Padovan family cleaning the BMW. Look how chic: “where do you work? I work at a BMW dealership. ” Detail: I was the king of the MOP (a cleaning tool), because I did the MOP of the whole store (a big store). Márcio cleaned the bathrooms and heavier things. Carina was pregnant and she and Odila, my wife, cleaned the other lighter things. Márcio used to vacuum. We worked as janitors, without any problem. At the end of the day, that gave us a living for all those months (I think it was for a year). Carina worked until one of the last days of the pregnancy. There was a day … let me tell you this, Christian. This is cool. I was cleaning and then came the boss, the owner of the business (the one who made the contract and gave us the job). Then she pulled out a cupboard and it was full of dirt. And so, he almost took me by the ear, you know … and pulled me there to see: “Can’t you see that?” I said: I wasn’t, but now I am. And she: “wow, don’t clean and stuff…” And I: I didn’t clean it because I couldn’t see it. Now, you who have the experience and who are showing me with all this education, so I will clean it for you. No problem. This is not my business, but, okay, I’m going to do my best, I’m learning from you. The woman almost cried. She said: “hey, I’m sorry”. And me: there’s no problem. It’s just that you’re used to dealing with people who may not understand your position very well. But I think we have to go through these experiences here.
Christian: The cho so. And Mississauga? Do you think you can live in Mississauga and work in Toronto? This traffic thing, too, is complicated here.
Armando: The cost of transportation is going to be a little problem. If you don’t have a car, you’ll have to take transportation from Mississauga, to the Mississauga end point. And from Mississauga starting point to Toronto, to Toronto point. So, there are two transports and for the costs they have here in Toronto and Mississauga… you know, it’s not cheap!
Christian : And Cambridge? Co mo is what is the difference of living in Missisauga and Cambridge?
Armando: Well, there is a big difference. We came to Cambridge because Renew Church , which was the church where I was a pastor, gave me the opportunity to start a church here in Cambridge, that they didn’t have a Renew church here. In terms of real estate, we sold the property in Mississauga and bought a property in Cambridge in cash.
Christian: What about the price difference?
Armando : For you to have an idea, I bought the property in Cambridge with the same footage that I had in Mississauga and I still have Can $ 80,000.00 left. It starts there. Price. How does the Cambridge community? There is a statistic that 32% of the population of Cambridge speak Portuguese. It is the largest concentration of Portuguese, proportionally, in the whole country. So, wherever you go, Portuguese is spoken. And Portuguese is a wonderful people! He is a friend, hospitable, super sincere. Sometimes this is complicated, because they tell you what they think about you. I like Cambridge a lot , and that’s one reason. Another thing. At the hospital, we were treated on the spot. In two hours, everything was settled. So, you have medical care … my wife even said: “what I most liked about going to Cambridge was meeting the family doctor ”. And the guy is sensational, the guy is fabulous! We have everything we need. Schools are good. A large number of churches, for all tastes … all the structure you need you have here.
Christian: And was it difficult to find an apartment?
Armando: The apartment we went to, it has a low ceiling, you know. It became depressing for my wife and then we came to a building that is coqueluch and here in Cambridge. It’s a 30-year-old building, but it has a structure that looks like it was yesterday, you know. Very well maintained and such. With 1,440 square feet, it is a huge apartment and has a spectacular view. The condo is cheaper than any Toronto or Mississauga condo . And ntão, one of the reasons that brought us here was that the question of real estate. Now, it’s not that easy. But in relation to Toronto, it is easier, for sure.
Christian: And the transportation is smooth?
Armando: Very calm indeed. When I arrived here in 2015… I have a friend who is a bus driver here (he and his wife). Then, I said: come on, I wanted to know the city. He said: “oh, then take my bus”. Then I took a ride on the friend’s bus and got to know the whole city. And I also got to know the transit system. Very interesting! And it serves the three cities: Cambridge, Waterloo and Kitchener (they call it three cities ). This is all interconnected. With a pass you go everywhere. Take a bus here in Cambridge, go to Waterloo, go to Kitchener. It’s peaceful, it’s very peaceful.
Christian: And how was it for your kids to move from Toron and Mississauga there , since he has kids?
Armando: They went to Milton, another very nice city. It was an advantage over Mississauga. Price issue. No more! Milton has the whole structure. We are moving to Milton, not next. This is the big news! Because our mission ended as a church and our children are with Milton. The grandson and granddaughters are there. So we’re moving there. We bought an apartment at the plant and it was a great deal, too. This is another tip. We have an apartment, practically, paid for. Our apartment is going up in price and Milton’s is fixed there (because we bought the plant). We are calculating that in this transaction we will have an advantage of almost $ 100,000.00. So there are opportunities, which you will be conquering, too. The only thing is that it has to be open. Now, our reason for going to Milton is because of our children being there. I am working for them. So it doesn’t make sense anymore today, even though we like it here a lot.
Christian: Do your grandchildren speak and write in Portuguese?
Armando: No. One of the granddaughters speaks Portuguese very well. The others already find it difficult to hold a conversation. The grandson, who is the youngest, Daniel, is five years old. Daniel doesn’t speak a word, but he understands Portuguese. In fact, they all understand Portuguese. To speak is that they are! The older one speaks Portuguese very well. We relate in Portuguese, no problem.
Christian: How is security in Cambridge or Milton? Calmer?
Armando: One of the biggest difficulties that exists between these bigger cities and Cambridge, for example, is this: security is total. One day, I forgot my wallet in a supermarket and a guy came running after me: “look, you forgot your wallet”. And I said, thank you. Security is complete. It is logical that, at one time or another, some nonsense happens out there, right, but it is total! And if I were to talk about the difference between Brazil and Canada, in Brazil you know how things are going. It’s terrible, right? Now, here, there is the bullying thing and this is serious. That’s why I tell you: “parents need to keep an eye on, they need to be involved, they need to be present, they know what happens in the child’s daily life”.
Christian: How is winter there? Better? Quieter q ue Toronto? It’s the same thing?
Armando: It is a little worse. Sometimes the temperature varies by two to three degrees less than in Toronto. It starts snowing here before Toronto. That ‘s what we realized these days. But, it is such a deal, we are in Canada and it is part of it. We are very protected.
Christian: You commented that there are a lot of Portuguese people there. Do you have many Brazilians too?
Armando: Starting to fill up. Starting to appear many. Mainly, in Kitchener, there is a fairly large community of Brazilians already. They started to arrive about two or three years ago and it is not stopping.
Christian: What is the biggest challenge for Brazilians here?
Armando: The adaptation. Well, that’s what I told you: there are more enlightened Brazilians, who are humble, who come to settle down and to go through some difficult moments. They come well prepared for this. And there are those who are inconsequential. The guy who thinks Canada has to speak Portuguese … Portuguese in his region. I would say this: the middle ground is very good. The Brazilian who comes here wanting to stay, is not the type: “I’m going to earn some change and go back to rich Brazil”. This type of Brazilian is not very successful here, no. Now, that Brazilian who comes here with difficulty, even to speak, but wants to learn, and has difficulty finding a job in his area, but is open to finding a survival job … this one has a lot of chance! The opportunity will come. Such a guy, he values the honest worker very much. Honesty on purpose, mostly. I have a deep admiration for a Brazilian who settled here and started well below. Today, she is a spectacular woman for the community. I have her as … I am an admirer of her and this person is the owner of Brasil Remittance. I’m a fan of hers (she doesn’t even know it, but I am) because it started at the bottom, you know. It’s the thing … if you have to eat rice with egg, eat rice with egg. If you have a banana, add a banana to thicken it. If you don’t have an egg, eat rice, but stick to your purpose: are you here to stay? Are you going to stay, do you want to learn? Then you will learn and go to work. You will have work, maybe not in your area right away, but you will find your way. There is a whole path to follow, as you said. There is no immediacy, there is no ready recipe, you know?
Christian: And speaking of a recipe, what would you recommend for a Brazilian who would be coming to Ontario or more precisely to Cambridge? What recommendation would you give, in addition to humility?
Armando: Looking for friends. Search for connection with friends or potential friends. Today, we have social networks, there are Brazilian groups in Cambridge (and there are some !). We are here to serve. Look for us. Armando Padovan is on Facebook, so look for us. The ” Viva Brazil Integration” is there. We are here to serve. So, if we have nothing to offer, we have someone who can offer, do you understand? There is a networking . So, it is trying to integrate into this networking , because there are a lot of serious people here. You can take Armando out of the picture, but there are others who, too, are very serious. And we know.
Christian: And with so many Brazilians you met, even more with what you do (and with what you did) the person arrives here in Canada realizes that it is not at all what I had thought… why, sometimes, the people arrive with a conviction, with an idea: “oh, this will be it!”
Armando: A common thing that happened and continues to happen: “I [just] have the money for the ticket and everything is fine. I’ll get there. ” That is, inconsequence. It has no purpose, it does not have a plan. This I would say is a common point in many Brazilians, unfortunately, and it happens every day. On the other hand, we meet so many serious people who come with a plan, with perspectives … and sometimes they don’t meet. But a very big mistake, too, is the visa issue. Before the pandemic, many people applied for the visa as a student. But an English student and not a college student. I had the displeasure and the sadness of seeing some families returning to Brazil, after having spent Can $ 50,000.00 or Can $ 60,000.00 or Can $ 70,000.00 or more. Because they came to study English and thought they were going to have all the benefits that a resident would have. So, bad information! Find out before leaving Brazil. But from reliable sources. It is not just any information. It is not listening to what you want to hear.
Christian: What kind of advice would you give to Armandão who arrived here in 2000? What would you say to him?
Armando: Before answering anything … I came with such conviction, that I think the only thing I would say to myself would be like this: go ahead! If God is for us, who can be against us? And my motto: the Lord is my shepherd, I will lack nothing. So, go ahead, Armando, don’t lower your head. Omnisci for God! Don’t forget your values. Don’t forget who you serve. Commit and be honest and honest in your purposes. Keep being transparent. “Practice justice and walk humbly with God.” This was the advice that the prophet Hosea gave.
Podcast: Ontario Beyond Toronto
- Direction and interviews: Christian Pedersen
- Production: Christian Pedersen e Ana Carolina Botelho
- Vignettes: Robson DJ Estudio – Participações de Robson DJ and Eric Major
- Coordenação: Teresa Botelho
- Website & Digital Marketing: Creative Team Canada
- Project Management: Teresa Botelho e Regina Filippov
A realization of BRZ Group Inc., Canada
Wave Podcast Series: Ontario Beyond Toronto
Made possible with the support of Ontario Creates